Wednesday, November 26, 2014

In Defense of John Winchester.


I am aware that this is a dangerous topic for me to cover.

I’m further aware that this might possibly anger some followers (if you are a Supernatural fan. If not, ignore this). Hopefully no one disagrees to the point where they unfollow, because let’s be honest, losing a follower is demoralizing. *le grin*

Please note that this is not directed at anyone specific. Just the SPN fandom in general.

Let’s face it. John Winchester is one of the most hated characters on TV. And frankly, I think the John Hate is out of control, so I’m going to do a support post for him, because… ahem. I actually like him.

Who is he?
He’s Sam and Dean’s dad in Supernatural.

Reasons Why People Hate John Winchester

* He was a terrible father.
* He was abusive.
* He only loved Sammy.
* He was too hard on his sons.
* He was a drunk (and abusive when he was drunk).
* He didn’t love his boys.

Yay, I get to defend this. LOL.

What you need to remember about John, is that before marrying Mary, he was a Marine. This would have made him a strong man -- a hard man. Someone who had already seen a lot of violence and death. He’d have known how to defend himself, and it’s likely that he would have been hard on the boys anyway, whether he had become a Hunter or not.

John’s father disappeared when he was like five or six, so he never had a role model father-wise. He had to learn by the seat of his pants, in a manner of speaking.

Okay, so here’s the gist of how John Winchester became a Hunter. It was the middle of the night, He and Mary were at home, their 4-year-old (Dean) was in bed asleep, and Sammy, just turned 6 months, started crying upstairs. He randomly heard Mary scream, so he rushed into the room to find her stuck to the ceiling above Sam’s crib, bleeding from a gash in her stomach. It was horrific. And then the room exploded around her, setting everything on fire. John grabbed Sammy out of his crib and was about to get him out of the house.  Dean had already gotten up, so he handed Sammy to him. “Dean, take your brother outside as fast as you can. Now, Dean! Go!” 

And then John ran back into the room to try to save Mary.

That’s his introduction. 

He ran back into the blazing bedroom to save his wife. How can you hate that?

So there you go. That’s John Winchester’s backstory.


The number one cry coming from John Haters is, “He was a terrible father! He didn’t love his sons, he was mean! John sucked!”

Well… okay. John definitely wasn’t what you can call a real fabulous Daddy. I agree. He was certainly more of a general than a father.

But consider what he was going through!

1.) He literally witnessed the murder of his wife.

2.) He then discovered that what killed her was a demon named Azazul, who had a giant plan to open hell and take over the world.

3.) He went from believing the world was normal to realizing that the supernatural is real. Demons, werewolves, ghosts, wendigos, vampires, etc… all real.

4.) HE WAS GRIEVING. People do weird things where they lose someone they love. (And I think that since John and Mary were matched up by the who’s who in the Cupid Circle of Heaven {something I really disapproved of in the show, btw} his grief was enhanced and prolonged because of the strings pulled and the magic used to make them fall in love in the first place.)

5.) Finding out all of the above freaked him out. He was afraid for his boys because, for all he knew, the demon that killed his wife might come back for them.


Yes, he was obsessed with finding the thing that killed his wife. Wouldn’t you be? He needed closure, and the only thing he could think of to do was hunt down the beast and kill it. How was he supposed to know it wouldn’t come back and hurt the rest of his family? How was he supposed to know it would take so long?

Because of his quest to kill this thing, Sam and Dean grew up on the move, constantly going from place to place, following the Demon. So they never really had a home. They grew up knowing that monsters were real, they knew how to fight, and use guns.

Sam:“Yeah, I know. But still. The way we grew up, after mom was killed. And dad’s obsession
 to find the thing that killed her.We still haven’t found the darn thing. 
So we kill everything we CAN find.”

Dean: “And we save a lot of people doing it, too.”

Sam: “You think mom would have wanted this for us? The weapons training,
 and melting the silver into bullets? Man, Dean, we were raised like warriors.”
John wasn’t trying to ruin their lives, he was trying to protect them. Was he too hard on them? Yeah. But that doesn’t automatically make him a bad father. He was doing his level best under the circumstances. Besides, what dad isn’t hard on his son? My dad was hard on my brother. It’s just a natural thing. Normally however, the dad’s usually have a wife to let them know when they’re being too hard. John lost his wife, remember?

Besides. None of the other people who were part of Azazul's big bad, take-over-the-world-plan were hunters. Did that save them? No. With the way all the fates were involved in Sam and Dean's lives, I think they would have become hunters anyway, even without John's help. 


"JOHN ONLY LOVED SAM."

No he didn’t. He loved both boys. Sam was just his youngest. The baby.  From Sam’s point of view, Dean was the special one. From Dean’s, Sam was. So… explain to me, how both boys were special and not loved?

Dean: "So what are you sayin'? That Dad was disappointed in you?" 

Sam: "Was? Is. Always has been." 

Dean: "Why would you think that? Sam, Dad was never disappointed in you. Never. He was scared."


Or how 'bout that part: 
Sam: "You were perfect. He was all over my case."


John saved/kept a savings account for Sam for when Sam was old enough to go to college. The only reason he freaked out when Sam actually went to college was because he wouldn’t be able to protect Sammy. I think at this point, John had figured out what Azazul was going to do with Sam, and that scared him.

He freaking gave Dean the impala! The impala was John’s baby before it was Dean’s.

Remember when he “wasted” a bullet from the Colt (the only thing that could kill the Azazul the Yellow Eyed Demon) to shoot a vampire and save Sam?  YEAH SELFISH, RIGHT?

He kept Dean's first sawed off shot gun. Why would he do that, except because it was Dean's first and he was proud of it? The thing was pretty much useless, after all.

He kept all of Sam’s trophies from sports.

Who did John sell his soul for? Oh, right. Dean.

The guy climbed out of hell to save his boys. He was awesome!

But yeah. He obviously only loved Sam.










JOHN WOULD HAVE KILLED SAM IN SEASON 2

I thought Sam was his favorite!!??

JOHN TOLD DEAN TO KILL SAM. 

No, he didn’t. He told Dean to save him. He knew what the Yellowed Eyed Demon had in mind for Sam, (Season four and five. The apocalypse.) and he knew what the consequences would be. (the end of the world.) So he warned Dean that if he couldn’t  save Sam, he might  have to kill him to stop him.

He didn’t say, “Oh hey, Dean. I’m gonna sell my soul for you. FYI, you need to kill your baby brother.“ He warned  Dean, and Dean just chose to save Sam. Like a boss.


JOHN WAS ABUSIVE. 

John was hard on his sons. He wasn’t abusive. There is a difference between the two. People think spanking  is abusive these days.

I guarantee you, if John was abusive, Dean, being the protective big brother that he is, wouldn’t have stayed with him. Besides, if someone is abused they wouldn’t have the kind of love that Sam and Dean have for their father. It’s rotten to assume, just because John wasn’t all cuddly and kind, that he beat up and emotionally abused his kids. The show itself never once states that John was out of hand. The only time it suggests that John drinks and gets upset is in the episode with young Sam, when he’s talking to the girl he has a crush on. And he only said that because she implied that her mom is not a good person.

Girl Sam has a crush on: "Yeah, well, she has a temper. Sometimes. It's... no big deal."

Young Sam: "My dad does, too. You don't want to see him when he's drinking."

You cannot tell me you haven’t stretched the truth when you’ve wanted to impress someone that you liked. Be real here.

JOHN WAS A DRUNK. 

What. I can’t even remember an episode where you see John drink. I think the worst he had was a beer. A single beer! I  could handle a single beer (and you didn’t even see him drink it. It’s just an empty bottle. Maybe Dean drank it!).

John was not a drunk.
Bobby was more of a drunk.
Dean is more of a drunk.
I mean, come on! Sam gets smashed when things get really bad!
John was never shown getting drunk. Heck, Sam even says.

Sam: “Well, I’ll tell you one thing, we were lucky we had Dad.”

Dean: “I never thought I’d hear you say that.”

Sam: Well he could have gone a whole other way after mom. A little more tequila,
 and a little less demon hunting, and we would have had Max’s childhood. 
All things considered, we turned out okay, thanks to him.”

Thanks to him. Thanks to him. Thanks to HIM.
 
Yeah, John obviously drank too much and beat up his kids. I mean, it's so obvious.

When Sonny asks Dean in Bad Boys if his dad gave him the bruises on his wrists, Dean says, “No, werewolf.” which Sonny thinks is a lie.

Someone actually asked the writer if John was the one who hurt Dean.

The writer said no.
The writer writes John Winchester.
The writer knows John.
The writer says John didn’t beat up Dean.
Who are you going to believe…. The fans or the writer?


In Swap Meat, Sam and Dean are talking to a lady who used to babysit them when John went on a really dangerous hunt. And she said, "Mm-hmm. Oh, he'd always come limping back. He loved you boys." 

Or in Phantom Traveler: 

Jerry: "Your dad said you were off at college, is that right?"
Sam: "Yeah I was. I'm taking some times off."
Jerry: "Well he was real proud of you, I could tell. He talked about you all the time."
Sam: "He did?"
Jerry: "Yeah, you bet he did."


Now, I won’t lie. John would never have won a best dad medal. And, like most fans, I back and forthed trying to decide if I liked him.
 

He’s so frustrating.

Like, he’ll do something sweet, like save money for Sam to go to college…. And then Sam decides to go to college and he flips because he’s scared for Sammy’s life. (Like I said, I think he'd already figured out what Yellow Eyes was planning and he knew that it would be dangerous for Sam to be alone.)

Dean: "He was afraid of what could've happened to you if he wasn't around. 
But even when you two weren't talkin'... he used to swing by Stanford 
 whenever he could. Keep an eye on you. Make sure you were safe." 

Sam: "What?"

Dean: "Yeah."

Sam: "Why didn't you tell me any of that?" 
Dean: "Well, it's a two-way street, dude. You could've picked up the phone."

He’s way too hard on the boys, yes. And that first season when they’re looking all over the place for him, freaking out, he was a big stinker. And he wouldn’t answer his freaking phone.

Dean almost dies, and they can’t get a-hold of him.

The house where their mother died is haunted, and Dean tries to call him, and he doesn’t answer. (Even though he was in the same town. Like…. Across the street from the house. The guy was a turd.)

And then you find out, he was staying away because the things he was hunting had turned around and were hunting him right back. John knew this and he was trying to keep his boys safe by staying away from them.

COULD HE HAVE MAYBE CALLED THEM AND LET THEM KNOW?
YES.
DID HE?
NO.
WAS IT RUDE AND THOUGHTLESS?
YES.
DOES IT MAKE HIM A TERRIBLE ABUSIVE FATHER?
NO.

He thought he was protecting his kids.

The fact of the matter is…. so much John hate is speculative fans going, “Oh, John must have done this. John did that.”


When, in reality, John was just broken man who was trying to avenge his wife’s death and raise his sons by himself. He definitely made a load of mistakes, no denying.

He was a good man in an impossible situation, and no matter what choices he made, he would still be hated, because for some reason, the fans latched on to the defects in his character and won’t give him a break.

If he hadn’t  gone after the demon, the fans would say that he was a bad husband and he didn’t love Mary.

If he didn’t  teach his boys to defend themselves, the fans would say he was negligent.

If he hadn’t  warned Dean about Sam, the fans would have said that he should  have because Dean had a right to know.

If he hadn’t sold his soul the fans would have said that he didn’t love Dean.

The guy can’t win!

I love him.


But he was a better character than Cas. At least he never betrayed the boys. At least he didn’t hurt them. (Cas deliberately and maliciously broke Sam’s mind. It was calculated to do the most damage, because he knew it would incapacitate Sam and it would make Dean freak out and be almost unable to think. He did it anyway, because Cas wanted to be a god. So tell me again how Cas is just a sweet baby?)

John only left his boys because he honestly thought it was safer for them.

John gave up trying to avenge his wife, so that he could sacrifice his soul to save Dean’s life.

John was willing to give up his life to kill the yellow eyed demon.

John wanted nothing more than to quit being a hunter.

John was a sad person.

"No Sam. I want to stop losing people we love. I want you to go to school,
 I want Dean to have a home. I want....I want Mary alive. 
It's just....I just want this to be over."

Things I know for sure:

1.) There is never a part where anyone says that John abused his kids.
2.) There is never a scene or dialogue where it implies that John did not love his kids.
3.) There is no way Sam and Dean would be so loyal to someone, if he was abusive. Even after all this time, nine years after he died, they’re still fiercely protective of him. People say snotty things about John, and they both get like, “We will cut you.”

In As Time Goes By, when Henry says something snide about the way John grew up, and Dean says,

"The hard way. Surviving a lonely childhood, a stinking war... only to get married
 and have his wife taken by a demon... and later killed by one himself. 
That man got a bum rap around every turn. But you know what? He kept going. 
And in the end, he did a hell of a lot more good than he did bad."



In the end he did a lot more good than bad. In the end, he ended up sacrificing himself so that his son could live. He loved his kids so much, that he gave up his soul for them.

John: "You know, when you were a kid, I'd come home from a hunt, and after what I'd seen,
 I'd be, I'd be wrecked. And you, you'd come up to me and you, 
you'd put your hand on my shoulder and you'd look me in the eye
 and you'd... You'd say 'It's okay, Dad'

Dean, I'm sorry.

You shouldn't have had to say that to me, I should have been
 saying that to you. You know, I put, I put too much on your shoulders, 
I made you grow up too fast. You took care of Sammy, you took care of me. 
You did that, and you didn't complain, not once. 

I just want you to know that I am so proud of you."


And c’mon, guys. Jared and Jensen both like John.

The writers like John. The guy who plays John wants to come back and set the record straight.

Why can’t the fans give the guy a break?

If you want to hate someone, hate Yellow Eyes for poisoning Sam.

Hate Lucifer for planning the apocalypse.

Hate Mary Winchester for not telling John that she made a deal to bring him back to life, for not warning him about things so he could have been more prepared.

Don’t hate John.

Dean and Sam take after John.

We love them.

Where do you think they learned to be good and selfless? It wasn’t Cas. It wasn’t Mary. It was growing up with John.




And that’s all.


26 comments:

  1. YES! JOHN WAS SO AMAZING! I mean, sure I'd get mad at him a lot, and sure he could be a great big stinker, but he was really, really cool and he went through 100 YEARS OF HELL WITHOUT BREAKING. HOW HEROIC AND BRAVE IS THAT?? Cas would have broken after a night. Lets' be honest here. John was a great character and he made me sad. And he was cute. You would be so mad at him then he'd smile and you're heart would just melt. He was impossible but he was amazing. It's so complicated!! Loving John Winchester is wanting to hug him and smack him at the same time.

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    1. YEAH HE WASSSS!!!! lol. I forgot to add the 100+ years of hell and not breaking. BUGGERITALL.

      BUT JOHN WINCHESTER FTW

      Delete
    2. you could add that in and update it. It won't be your newest post, it will still be on the same date

      Delete
  2. Even though I don't watch Supernatural, after this post, I too, love John.

    Oh, and I have happy news!! I did my first shift at work today!!! eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

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    1. Good! Because he needs more fans! XD

      OH REALLY!?? CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!1

      Delete
  3. This was so good! I'm only halfway through Season 3, but John Winchester is definitely one of my favorite characters. A couple of things I have to say regarding this post:

    1.) I think it is brilliant that you know the show so well that you are able to argue every case against John with evidential proof from the show. Very few people can do that. So well done!

    2.) You were very respectful of other people's views and didn't demean them in any way. A professional quality that is rarely found in bloggers.

    Ok, my thoughts on John are pretty much the same as yours. What's happened in society is that people have lost the clear picture of what real fatherhood is. Nowadays in the media, fathers are portrayed as stupid and useless, and let their kids run all over them. John Winchester is intelligent, strong, and an old-school dad who believes in discipline and hard work that will bring out the character in their children. So, to have a character such as John is really a shock to the social lie that kids have been fed for the last 20 years. Another dad in the fandom media that gets the "bad dad rap" is Odin from 'Thor'; people only see the exterior of his character and are clearly too shallow to read more into who he is.

    If John didn't care for his kids, why did he spend so much time and energy trying to protect them? Protecting a child doesn't mean locking them in their rooms, it means teaching them to defend and protect themselves. Because parents don't live forever and eventually they are going to have to trust their children to live on their own and take care of themselves. So, I think John bringing his sons into the world of supernatural hunting and teaching them how to hunt is no different from any father teaching their children life skills.

    The whole abusive thing is just ridiculous too! In the episode 'Nightmare' even Sam said he couldn't imagine their dad ever being abusive and how thankful he was that hunting was really John's escape instead of alcohol. There is a clear line between being strict and being abusive and this harkens back to the social lie of passive fathers. At the end of Season 2 when John came back and fought Azazel with his boys, I was so relieved that there was closure between him and his sons, but clearly not many other people want to see that.

    Do you think you (or Bella) could do one on Sam? He's my favorite character, but I'm getting tired of the fandom (and even the show) constantly putting him down in lieu of his more popular older brother. This is a long comment...but there's a lot about John Winchester that's been bubbling up inside me too, and you pretty much took everything I felt and put it into a brilliant post!

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    1. Oooh you're only on s3? Where are you at in it!?

      Exactly, John is such a cool character, it makes me sad that no one likes him. :(

      1.) Awww thanks. XD I surprised myself by knowing it so well. lol.

      2.) Good! I'm glad you think so! Because I didn't want to be rude or in your face about my opinions. And I HATE it when people make fun/are disrespectful of other people's ideas, so I tried really hard not to be.

      Okay. I think I really like you now. NO ONE AGREES ABOUT JOHN. It's so irritating! And I think you have a really good point about people's view points on parenthood. I mean yeah, he was too hard on them, but it was just because he knew what they were in for. I don't think he would have started hunting so much as he did, if he'd known what would happen to the boys. Old school isn't bad, it's strict, but it bring about good kids. My parents were really strict when we were growing up, and It feels right. We were never unhappy, but we definitely had lines that we weren't allowed to cross or CONSEQUENCES.
      YOU LIKE ODIN TOO!??? *high five*

      Hehehehe. I'm reading your comment and going, "yep. Yep. Yep. YES. Yup."

      John loved his sons! And people are constantly saying that it's canon that he was mean and abusive and I'm just like, "really? Really."

      EXACTLY They don't want to see that Sam and Dean got over their anger and daddy issues and realized that he was a good man and really did love them. I know from personal experience how hard it can be when there's not much of a relationship with dad and kid. But they definitely loved each other. Freaking Winchester pride, man. lol.

      Hehehe. I'll see what I can do. I think Bella was planning on a defense for Sam too, so I'll see. (I'm a bit more of a Dean girl than a Sam girl, but, like you, I AM SO SICK of people tearing Sam and his character down, show and fans a like. Grrr! (Hehehe. I'm the one Dean girl in my family everyone else is Sam, which is fine, because I don't need to share. LOL)

      Thank you for liking the post!! I'm glad! I was worried that it wouldn't go over well. lol. *knuckle bump*

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    2. I'm up to episode 15 and so far I have loved this season! It's definitely found myself laughing more through this one. You know what you need to do to spread more respect for John Winchester? Make a blog button that says something along the lines of "I Support John Winchester" and have it link back to this post. I would definitely put one on my site.

      Delete
    3. Unnnng the finale hurts. lol.

      Ooh, I'll think about that. I might actually do that. XD

      Delete
  4. Bravo!!! I agree with EVERYTHING you wrote. Seriously, that was perfectly reasoned, and completely unassailable. Now we just need to direct all the John-haters to this page. If Sam and Dean heard the slanderous talk going on about their dad, darn right they'd take a break from hunting and go teach those fools a lesson. ;)

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    1. *bows* Thank you!!! I tried. lol.

      hahaha, I dunno if I could handle all the John Haters coming here and filling my post with hating comments, because then I'd be like, "NO YOU'RE WRONG! WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! WROOONG!" lol.

      I know, if Sam and Dean heard any of the John hate they'd just be like, "well that's a bunch of crap." and it would be aweosme. XD

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  5. WHAT HOW CAN YOU SAY THESE THINGS???? JOHN IS A TERRIBLE FATHER! I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU CAN DEFEND HIM!!!! HE DRINKS ALL THE TIME AND HE TOTALLY HATES SAM AND DEAN!

    Just kidding, I've never seen Supernatural. I can't even finish this comment because I'm laughing so hard at my own stupid joke.

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    1. OH MY GOSH, YOU'RE SO WRONG!!! JOHN WAS JUST A SAD BABY, HOW CAN YOU BE SO RUDE TO HIS LITTLE FACE?????! hahahahaha.

      Good, don't start Supernatural. It's not actually awesome. Just Sam and Dean. And John, but too much problems with it overall. But hee, I didn't see your name when I read the comment at first, so I was like, 'REALLY? THAT LITTLE TURD'S TRYING TO CHANGE MY MIND!?? lol

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  6. I tagged you!! http://isabelladelallo.blogspot.com/2014/12/christmas-time-is-here_9.html#comment-form

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  7. Ok, ok, ok I won't hate him anymore please don't make cry :(

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  8. This. Forever this.

    I started this show last year (caught up on all 10 seasons during finals week, hah) and wandered into fandom territory only recently because I needed to find all the info I could about season 12. Of the two things that pissed me off the most one was all the hate for John Winchester (the other I won't go into because I'm scared of the swift and immediate anger of some fans). Anything I could possibly say in response is perfectly summed up in your post, and I thank you. :)

    I also agree with a previous comment about the difference between strict and abusive parenting, and it frustrates me how much people on the interwebs seem to conflate the two. I was raised by strict, yet loving, parents, and I appreciate everything they've done for me even when they weren't always perfect or when they had too many expectations. I feel like a lot of characters in Supernatural are interpreted too shallowly (e.g. "Sam's a selfish twit" or even "Dean's a controlling asshole") when the writers and the actors have created characters that are so much more complex and layered than that. It's part of the appeal of the show. I mean even the villains (and I mean 100% pure evil villains) are kind of sympathetic, but John gets all the hate? Please.

    I'm rambling now, but thank you! Again. For putting everything I've ever wanted to comment back to John-haters in such an eloquent well-argued post.

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    1. haha, thank you!

      (Oh wow, that takes skillz to finish during finals week *high fives*.) The fandom is either WOW REALLY FUN or WOW WHAT THE HECK and there is actually no in between. Stay out of the fandom territory if you can lol. ;) But yeah, the John hate is mostly just like, "Why? Why on earth would you come up with that headcannon. Why." lol.

      Exactly, same here. There's a big big difference between abuse and discipline. But YES I'm so SICK of people latching on to the worst parts of people's character and being like, "This is their entire personality. This one flaw." Like yes, hi, hello, you're wrong. I like how realistically layered the characters are. No one is perfect, and I like how you can see them fighting their flaws and that's adorable by them. :) (Lucifer, for example, I love him. AS A VILLAIN. He's great. He's so evil, it's great.) But John? John's not a villain, John might have the saddest story of anyone on the show.

      Haha thanks for commenting! It makes me so happy to see I'm not the only person out there that thinks the show would probably have been even better if John had lasted longer. :)

      Have a great evening!

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  9. Hi, ever since I started Supernatural last December I noticed right from the beginning how much I liked John. I mean, yeah he was too strict sometimes and all this but he deeply loved his boys. I don't get all those John haters, they are clearly not understanding the complex character that John is. I like him and I feel bad for him, for everything he had to go through. I cried when he dies in season 2. I cried when he came out of hell and smiled at Dean, that was when the tears fell like a waterfall. I wished he would have been on the show a bit longer. Sorry for my english, I am from Germany and since we still don't have season 11 on Netflix or on DVD here I am going to rewatch season 1-10 until it comes out :) Great Post, it showed me that I am not the only one with this opinion about John. Best wishes Marie from Köln, Germany

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    1. Right? John's a twit, but he's awful lovable. ;) lol.

      BUT YES, people have just a hard time understanding complex, realistic characters, and that's sad. He literally climbed out of hell to save the boys and that's just sad.

      No your English is fine, probably better than mine. Don't worry. :)

      Have a great day!

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  10. Completely Agree with your post! Thank you for creating it. I'm a huge Supernatural Fan (As in the type who rarely misses an episode). I sometimes wonder if some of the people who watch the show are mature enough or have enough insight or empathy to understand the complexities of it. The writer's have made sure that each character is complicated and deeply layered with their own strengths, weaknesses, beliefs, gifts, talents, foibles, and flaws. In the fandom, you have people who love Lucifer, Crowley, and other villains (rightfully so because they are awesome characters that are written and portrayed very well), but hate John Winchester because he wasn't a perfect Leave it to Beaver Daddy. News flash people. The writer's wrote him as a father who was thrown into the supernatural and he battles these forces as best he could, all while trying to raise boys into strong men who don't crumble whenever they have to deal adversity and he does this while dealing with his own fears, weaknesses and strengths and theses attributes came from his life. His very hard life. I praise this post for showing irrefutable truth, canon facts, that Sam and Dean have survived as long as they have because of how this man raised them. In fact, I will probably site this website and lay down some facts whenever I have a strong desire to review a story with some serious John!Haters. However, I usually skip those stories (unless it's a really good read).

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    1. Hahaha aw thank you.

      Yeah, I still love John despite everything. I mean yeah, he's a jerk. Lots of people are. BUT HE'S NOT ALL JERK AND HE MAKES ME SAAAAAD LOL.

      He's actually the biggest of all the bad guys in Walking Dead currently, and I'm sitting here like, "But he's Daddy Winchester and I adore him..."

      But yes! Go ahead and site this website, that's totally fine with me. :)

      Thanks for taking the time to comment and have an awesome day!

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  11. Hello! I have to say, I agree with a lot of your points! I don't feel like John was a drunk (necessarily, since literally almost all of the characters drink a lot) or that he didn't love his boys. He definitely loved Sam and Dean. The only thing I feel you should change is the fact that he was a bad parent, and that he was possibly abusive. We're not told enough about their past to say differently, but in the "Bad Boys" episode we get to see a bit of their pasts. As far as hunters go, John was among the best, and he certainly has a claim to being lumped in with the heroes on this show, but he's also one of the most flawed characters on the Supernatural roster and when we talk about how Sam and Dean couldn't have become the men they are today without him, that's a comment that could be taken both positively and negatively.
    "Nobody bad touched me, burned me with their smokes, or beat me with a metal hanger—I call that a win." Dean literally says this. That's textbook emotional abused child rationalization.

    There's also the fact John literally leaves children on their own for days with money and an order for Dean to take care of them both, but yeah. This is proven in pretty much every "flashback to when they were children" scene.

    My main problem with this article is that you're writing it from the abuser's point of view. You're trying to rationalize abuse and make it seem like it wasn't as bad as it was. Sure, John may not have meant it, and sure, he went through a lot, but it still doesn't excuse what he did. Excusing the abuser makes you just as bad as the abuser himself.

    John is a wonderful, multi-dimensional character. I wish that we could've had a little more time focused on his past and the way he thought so that discussions like this didn't happen. We never get to see a lot about him besides from what Sam and Dean think and talk about him.

    The point is, just because you like a character doesn't mean that you need to try to justify or erase certain parts of him. You can like a character with flaws; it doesn't necessarily make you a bad person. That's something a lot of people online (especially on Tumblr) need to learn.

    Great article!! You have some really well thought out points and you pointed out some things that I needed to look into before replying! :) Keep writing!!

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    1. lol I'm glad you enjoyed it. :)

      I'm not justifying John's parts, and I'm DEFINITELY not writing from "an abuser's view point" having been directly affected by emotional abuse myself, I know exactly what it means to be the victim of that, and so no, I have absolutely zero tolerance for it.

      It's never said or proven that John left them without money or food for days on end. (unless something happened in the later seasons. I quit watching at s10) The problem with the whole "Emotional abuse" thing that people throw out there about John is that they don't realize that once you're out of the situation of abuse, the fallout starts to happen and it turns into anger. Neither of the boys exhibit anger at their dad.

      I dunno. I don't think it's a problem to like a character, flaws and all.. I think it's a problem to see flaws no matter what the person does.

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  12. Now don't get me wrong, I love John to the moon and back three times and I think you did an amazing job writing this but I have to ask, what's with all the Cas hate? I love him as much as John but I am just curious about this Cas thing. Again thank you for this article, it was very well written.

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    1. Thank you!

      Oh.. well the Cas thing. I don't like Cas, I think his character is poorly written, and the show's portrayal of Heaven and angels in general is horrendous. But even if Cas wasn't an angel, I don't like his character, I think he's weak and manipulative. But that's just me. You're allowed to like him lol.

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